Fighting Demons: MMA & UFC Fighter Lyman Good's Journey to Mental Wellness
For American mixed martial artist Lyman Good, the path to UFC fame was hardly paved with gold. Despite his challenging upbringing, marked by poverty and the absence of a father figure, martial arts became an extraordinary lifeline. Now, as the founder of Good Theory, he is a mental health advocate fighting for a new future.
Known as “American Cyborg,” Lyman opens up about the darkest chapter in his life, the profound struggles he faced after his father's passing, and the depths of depression that led him to contemplate suicide. But out of the darkness came a glimmer of hope. Resilience and redemption led to the creation of the "Good Theory" project, aimed at raising awareness about mental health issues.
Discover the profound importance of vulnerability, self-awareness, and the power of surrounding oneself with positive influences on the road to mental wellness. This episode is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the transformative potential of confronting one's demons to emerge stronger and more compassionate.
To join the fight with Good Theory, follow them on Instagram.
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JT 0:01
Alright ladies and gentlemen, I'm sitting here with us fire philosopher. I don't even know if that if you follow that, that title or you acknowledge that title, but after looking at stuff you're putting out I'm, I'm deeming you a philosopher. Mr. Lyman, I appreciate you taking the time to do this.
Lyman Good 0:18
Appreciate your time. Thank you for inviting me onto the show. Yeah. Yeah. That's the first time I heard that one. So I'll take it.
JT 0:26
I I, honestly, yeah, we'll get it. We'll get into the reason behind that. But I do think it's fitting. First off, we've got a mutual friend. I was on the phone the other day with Joey Bowen from, from Few Will Hunt. And I said, Hey, I'm sitting down with this, this Lyman Good. You know, you guys do I know. And we've actually come become really good friends over a short period of time. Yeah.
Lyman Good 0:47
Joey hit it off. He's good people, man. He's very like minded. You know? Yeah, it's amazing to be able to surround yourself with the like mindedness of other men who you know, value hard work. And you know, blood, sweat, and tears, equity. You know, all that. Yeah. 100%.
JT 1:03
So, just for the listeners here, you might hear some stuff in the background that is big because Lyman is he's at a gym like this, this, this is the noise of people training. So this is the this is what happens when we try and fit in we podcast, we do stuff, everyone's multitasking. So I'm just stoked. You're taking the time to do this. And I actually think it adds to it. It adds having some people out in the background. Absolutely. Well, I mean, I've listened to some other podcast with you. But you've had you've had a tough go at it. And one of the philosophies we we mentioned on here a lot comes from the stoic teachings that the obstacle is the way right, like what stands in your way becomes the way I when I first off, I want to I'm going to ask you, this one has been rattling around in my brain as I'm as I'm listening to another podcast, as I'm looking at your social media. Where does the idea of a fighter right because you're a UFC fighter? Where does the fighter philosopher and the ego? Where do they kind of collide? Like how do you how do you manage the the, the either the knee or want of a spotlight with it with the butt. So with this idea of of really looking deep into something right, looking to being a true looking into the philosophy of fighting the philosophy of a living, and and what it means to be a man like what? I don't know, does that question even make sense to you?
Lyman Good 2:37
Yeah, it does. I think the answer to that question might vary from person to person, because some people go into fighting for different reasons. I know for sure, it was never about money, it was never about fame, it was never about any of the things that are fleeting, that come and go. For me, fighting was the embodiment of everything that I didn't have in my life. So I wasn't just fighting in a cage, I was fighting for all the things that I lacked, I liked having, you know, first off a father figure in my life, I lacked, having confidence, I lacked a vision, I lacked a sense of self. So, in essence, for me to every time I went out fighting, I felt like I was just embodying just another piece of armor that I was fight by fight putting onto myself to build a structure of, you know, of a man or what I think is the image of my, in my head what a man should be.
JT 3:40
Yeah, you know, at first glance, I go to your Instagram page. And you only have to look for like, you know, a split second to see that obviously, physical fitness is something that you take very serious, but the way that you and I connected was through your Your Side Project. And that's the good theory. Can you give an elevator pitch of what the good theory is and where that kind of came from.
Lyman Good 4:06
So Good Theory is a passion project that basically is to help bring awareness to mental health to you know, the struggles of the human spectrum, the human condition. And it all came about through, you know, obviously, it's called good theory. So, you know, from play of the words of my last name, but in essence that all people are only good in theory. If you think about how many times you've approached a friend or you saw somebody and use, you know, you say hi to each other, it's always Hey, what's up? What's going on? I'm good, how are you? I'm good, you know, and we've missed so many opportunities to have to really dive a little bit deeper and really kind of read between the lines and understand that people aren't really as good as they say they are. We just put on a mask. A lot of our living existence for The day to day is a series of masks that we wear. So, for me good theory is basically, it's a nod to how we often tell one another that we're good all the time. And we say to each other, we're good. There's our professions, that we must say that we're good. But it's all in theory, I had a conversation with. It was an ex pastor. He's from an entrepreneurship program. He's part of an entrepreneur group. And he was an ex pastor who said, he gave up doing that, because he wanted to make more of a difference of outside of what he was already doing. And then one of our last lessons, and I remember, it always stuck with me, he said, sometimes being good at something does, just because you're good at something doesn't mean that you're meant to do it. Sometimes being good at something is actually the thing preventing you from finding greatness, because we identify so much with the things that we're just good at that we never say, well, I could actually be doing more, or I could be doing greater things. And in essence, that's kind of like a comfort thing. As creatures of comfort, we tend to often latch on to the first thing we feel we're good at, and live there. Not realizing that there's other things that we could also be not just good at. But we could be amazing, you know, so yeah, in any case, all of that to say, you know, good theory. That's where the the premise of it came from.
JT 6:29
Yeah, I love it. I was I spent some time on there today. And, you know, there's this idea. When we talk about a profession, right, you talk about a fighter, you're talking about a police officer, you're talking about a doctor, people have this image in their mind. And, you know, I've been I've been in some like a professional MMA fight. And there was a lot of bravado, there's a lot, I mean, not just not as much in the fighters, as there probably is in the people in the stance. You know, there's just a lot of peacocking about posturing. Did you? How did you feel about coming out with, with the good theory, where you're diving a little bit deeper into things around positive mental health? Was there any apprehension about that project?
Lyman Good 7:14
Yeah, I think you hit very, you hit on the head with that. So initially, because we are, you know, very programmed as human beings, the program, we, you know, we've been living for a greater part of our entire lives, it's just what we live by. So my program has always been about, you know, strength, showing, showing how strong we are, never show a weakness in a world of masculinity, where it is needed to have to be strong and always be strong and ever show weakness. It combated a lot against the, you know, the ideals and the the concepts of good theory, and being vulnerable. Because essentially, that is, I think, the biggest vein of truth to people that they don't like to touch is that people if they were a little bit more vulnerable, and more forthcoming about what they're actually going through, that they probably wouldn't be suffering in the manner in which they are. I believe most men live lives of silent desperation. And it always comes to us to two times out of the day, I always say, I believe, first thing in the morning, right before you go to bed. Two times out of the day, where you are brutally honest with yourself, there's nobody around. And even if you're sharing a bed with a partner, or with anyone near you, you are alone in your head, where you truly start to have those conversations that you've muted the entire day. So there has to be a sense of vulnerability first, in order to really create a sense of self awareness so that you can start to heal and you can start to you know, bring up all the things that you know, that probably have stuck with you since you were a kid things that created your program in the first place.
JT 9:03
Yeah, I literally just had this conversation about an hour before we got on that. You know, we portray we live in a world where we portray these things through through technology, usually, but it can be just the way that we you know, we walk around and but that has little to do with the conversation you have with yourself at two in the morning. Right? Like when you can't sleep and whether it's something you feel like you're lacking, maybe it's something you're disappointed in, it could be an interaction with somebody or a loved one. Those Those conversations are much harder to have and I think it was it was in context to habit building. Right like through through our habits is an opportunity to hold ourselves accountable and have this feeling of self pride in what we're doing. Yeah. Getting back to that. Can you break down one of the some of the reasons you got into fighting and maybe some of the struggles you had as as as a young
Lyman Good 10:03
So, first, I mean, fighting for me was just a way to get out the streets that was initially, you know, at face value. That was the initial intent behind it. My mother wanted to do something with me as a hobby. I was already getting kicked out of high schools for beaten up bullies. Bullying was one of the things that really, really angered me growing up, I hated seeing people prey on others. In any case, I wasn't doing any good in school. So she was like, you know, to get you off the streets, let's do something, why not we do like martial arts. So we did our research, I found a school I went in, I mean, long story short, I fell in love with it from day one. To me, it embodied a form of expression. Because martial arts, if you look at all the, you know, I can guarantee you almost every fighter you talk to have has had some type of past or history that helps them to almost alleviate and soothe an inner child in them. Yeah. And I feel like, for me, that was exactly it. Because I've had so many years of anger, I grew up around a lot of violence and drugs, I grew up in a projects poor. You know, there was basically everything that would give me nothing in life, because it was just a, you know, an environment that just read, nothingness, it was just, you know, just crime, drugs, again, violence. So I was like, I don't want to be a part of that. But I don't know what to be a part of also. So that's why when I found martial arts that engulf me in its world, you know, and I fell in love with it.
JT 11:44
You mentioned that this is something you want to be a part of, but at the same time, you found something through an act of violence, like that was a way to make a stand, whether it be against a bully. Was it something you felt like, kind of came natural to you?
Lyman Good 12:03
Yeah, I don't know if I was cursed with that when they named me good as my last name. Which I'm the third by the way, the third lineman good and my generation. Part of it for me was exactly that was because I'm the third of my generation, I wasn't really close with my father, he wasn't close with his, you start to see the patterns, right? Yeah. So I wanted to break the pattern, it's a third time's a charm. So my last name to me also met, which is part of good theory also, is to make a change, to not, in theory, live up to the same Lyman goods that have preceded me to just be something different, become the thing that I never had in life. So, um, you know, in my case, violence was kind of a way to do that. But it was, you know, violence was more as a means of doing the right thing, because sometimes violence is needed. Violence has forged freedom in our country. You know, without it, you need both, you need the balance between war and peace, you know, and I have the tattoo on my side, you know, if, if you want peace, prepare for war. But for me, fighting was just a form of expressing myself and all the anger that I've kept in since I was a kid. But it was it also meant for me to do the right thing. Because when you're capable of violence, you're also very confident, and only confident people tend to do what's right. Because what's right is also hard.
JT 13:31
Yeah, yeah. That taps into are they the conversation I had of comparing what is what makes you feel good to happiness and where those two things are, are. They don't live in the same place, right? Feeling feeling good. Short term is is over a period of time chasing that is usually a recipe for feeling like shit about yourself about you know, you've clearly sacrificed a lot for this sport. Was the was a sacrifice? You know, we have a we have a T shirt with a few 100. Guys, it's starting to distraction feed your focus, right? Feed, your focus started structured. Yeah. Was that something that you you just took to within martial arts? Or was that a because that's usually not a like a natural thing for young young people like they we chase these, especially one, especially people that have some demons? How did you find that discipline in doing to become I mean, literally award world class fighter?
Lyman Good 14:46
I think obsession.
JT 14:49
healthy or unhealthy.
Lyman Good 14:52
I mean, that's a matter of perspective. Because those on the other side of my obsession will say I have an unhealthy obsession with But all obsession really is is just having passion towards something and that there was no depth that you're willing to go through for the purpose of that passion. And I think there's two things, I think there's obsession, and there's love, because we will do ungodly things will do anything in his world for love. And my love, which one of the first loves I found was martial arts. And you combine that with obsession, man, every day, I just wanted to train, I wanted to train. I to be honest, I didn't even start training with the intention of fighting, I just kind of happened. I just trained because I was living in the moment. And I think that's one of the things I've that's probably the first time in my life, I felt the power of something that was extremely important. And it's being present. Because every time I train, I was just tired, I was just pushing, I was getting hit, I was hitting, it was just, like, everything that embraced this full spectrum of you know, of a human being in, in my training sessions, I feel so many emotions. And it would just bring me into the moment, I feel this sense of flow, that sense of love the sense of just freedom. And it just kept bringing me to the present. But I think what helped me is honestly, I'm just a very obsessive person. I mean, I slept in a cage for three months in preparation for the Bellator tournament back in 2010. You know,
JT 16:25
I was gonna bring it up, we were gonna get to it.
Lyman Good 16:30
But that type of framework, if you ask any of the greats in life, they were all obsessed.
JT 16:36
Yeah. Yeah. Have you had to explain that to other people that maybe don't understand it? Because, obviously cut from a different piece of wood than a lot of people. Few people understand what true obsession with something feels like where you're driven towards it. I mean, you mentioned that you slept in the cage for three months leading into the bellow Bellator, during the tournament to become a Bellator. Champion. Yeah. How? Or do you even feel the need to try and explain that to somebody?
Lyman Good 17:07
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say you don't have to explain it. There. They're not meant to be there with you when you elevate. And when you move on, you know, they say, the last mile is usually the loneliest. And it's for a reason, you know, the, the tops of mountains are the loneliest is because that peak is so high that it's meant to atrophy. And to slowly erode away the people who are not meant to be there with you. Only those who find, you know, parallels with you just give you the nod, like, you know, because we spoke about Joey, I use him as an example. I'll say thanks to him, you know, he just looks at me, he was like, bro, you know, we give each other that. Look, we just understand, we don't have had to explain. Yeah, it's a mutual language that, you know, it's like it's foreign to certain people. So there's no point in explaining it. It's either they get it or they don't?
JT 17:59
Sure. Yeah, when I spoke to him, he had nothing but positive things to say about me, he mentioned the exact same thing as far as like a connection, almost an instant connection between the two of you, when you when you guys met.
Lyman Good 18:14
Joe is a man is awesome people who's like real to, you know, despite his success, and everything, and his accolades, and what he's doing is doing amazing things. But as a person who's just you know, and I love that I love people who are just real, like, I can set aside that I'm a fighter. And, you know, for example, at home, I don't have anything on my walls about fighting. You know, it might be strange. Some people think like, I decorate everything, but I don't have anything in my home in my home. I have a rule when I hang out with people, I don't really bring up fighting or anything unless they ask, that's a different story. But I'm just me, man.
JT 18:50
I love that man. Because that's one of the things we talked about on here a lot is identity. Right. And I've talked to people that have have been all in it's an all consuming forum. And then that thing is taken away. The vacuum that that leads is just wreaks havoc, I mean, absolute havoc. So I think it's important to have that break from what this thing is your living full time. Have these interactions with other people away from away from fighting? I mean, not a fighter, but I imagine that there has to be a burnout factor at the same time.
Lyman Good 19:25
Yeah. I mean, I love that you're touching on that because it's such I don't think people realize the importance of that is identity. And that what people really have when they say they have a midlife crisis really is an identity crisis. And it's that they've mis identified themselves for so many years, that there comes a point in time at a certain age where they recognize Wait a minute, shit, there's I don't feel things I don't feel what I should be feeling. It doesn't make sense. I have X amount of money. But I don't have the happiness. I have, you know, X amount of success, but I don't feel the joy. There's a disconnect. And it's because of the Miss identity. And I think what you're talking about is a very important topic, I think. I think so one of the things I think about when I'm unsure of who I am, as I asked myself, God forbid, if I ever get into an accident, like a terrible one where I'm, you know, physically incapable. And I'm alone in my head, in my mind, who am I? If you cut my arm off? Is the army, or, you know, like, do identify with the arm? No, I'm still me just without the arm. If you cut off a leg, you know, is that leg me? No, it's just a part of me. But I think we just latch on to the identity of certain things so much that without it, we're we feel lost. You know, I went through that after my father passed away. When he passed away, my identity was Rage was anger was, you know, violence was all these things that actually helped me in my career. Yeah. But when he was gone, I didn't know who I was. And I went through a very dark period after that. So I'm happy you're touching on that subject with the people you talk to?
JT 21:18
Yeah, it's a hard one, you know, there's people that either lose that, or they've realized that what they've been doing up until now does not serve them this thing that they've gone all in on is, is hurting themselves and maybe loved ones. And so you come to this crossroads, and you have to make a decision on exactly that. What am I if I were, if this thing was taken away from me? Am I gone? And then the answer is no, you're still here. But what does that look like? Now? I mean, you mentioned that you're the third, lineman good. And you went out of your way to make yourself different than the other, the other linemen. What does that mean? What is what is the difference? What is the things that stand out in your life that make you different than maybe the, you know, this blueprint that you are given to be a man How do you do things differently?
Lyman Good 22:14
I mean, I identified with my lack
JT 22:19
that's gonna be the soundbite. I identified with my lack beautiful,
Lyman Good 22:23
because when I realized what I didn't have, you know, it's like, it's like playing a good hand with the deck of cards, you're just given, you know, it's, I call it the, you know, my ace of spades. I always found an ace and a hole in every aspect of my life, because I wanted it so bad, I look for it. Everyone has one by the way. Everyone has raised in a hole. But the problem is, is out, we tend to find excuses as to why not to do the work because that's much harder to do than to just look at yourself in the mirror. So my, my connections, I guess, to my name, and my father and grandfather was just looking at the lack that there was their father was, you know, yeah, he wasn't around. He's alcoholic, he struggled. Sure. And that's, that's a lot for me to even see it. At this age, because when I was younger, I didn't see that I saw that he wasn't there. I saw that he did it on purpose. I saw you know, everything's prospective. So I grew up very angry. But it's only now later in life that I'm looking at it as you know, no, he just didn't have someone love him. Yeah, so how am I supposed to get love from my father, so lack so I identified with lack and I looked for everything that I can make out of nothing. I prided myself on that you give me nothing and I'll make something out of it. Nice and a whole
JT 23:56
it's really hard to see somebody that's so close to you, that has hurt you whether that be on purpose or subconsciously and have empathy for them and and to me, that's a sign of maturity, right? Like we have to be able to look at our own where we lack ourselves to be able to go okay this person didn't do the same thing with their deck of cards that I did, but that's and you know, it's it's so personal when it's a loved one that it's very hard to separate ourselves from that and go okay, this person has an addiction, this person's clearly in a lot of pain that they may be that disc. That not that it gives him a free pass, but it explains a lot in their interactions.
Lyman Good 24:42
I learned how I learned how to forgive someone and I think it you know, the when people are born, they're more pure than when they're all down. And if you want to forgive someone, think of them As a kid, who were they before? The thing that fucked them up? made them become the person that they are?
JT 25:06
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good exercise. It's a good exercise to do for yourself. It's good exercise to look at, like coping mechanisms and go right. Like, why do I do the things? I do? And and do they? Because they serve me as a kid? Do they still serve me as an adult? And that's, you bring the purity of a kid in you? I mean, it really? It? Definitely. It levels the playing field for sure.
Lyman Good 25:30
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and that's also that's true, what you said to that was a good point is to, to exercise you can do to yourself, because before you are who you are today, you were some thing completely different. You were at one point pure, you were untouched, you weren't fucked with yet with the things that you know, really started to shape your personality and it could work one two way is good or bad. You know, and the problem is, is that when it's bad, as we get older, because we have to, you know, make life happen, we have to get a job, we have to do this, we have to do that we have a whole grocery list of things that must be done, for better or for worse. So because of that, people don't really have time to heal themselves, because they're on this time crunch that they had to have had accomplish these things by a certain amount of time get married, get a house good. And that if you don't have those things, you're, you know, like socially inept, or you're, you know, a failure. There's just so much pressure to have to be something by society's standards, that you as a person never really had the time to just say hold on, I got some shit to deal with. From my past, I can't move forward. But if I if I do move forward is going to be me as somebody else this thing that I'm not even really I'm just playing a character.
JT 26:56
Yeah. You know, you mentioned when you're when your father died you had all these really like this was this this sense? Or source of rage right like you're you're channeling this stuff. Am I right in saying that when when he was gonna you feel this loss of like, is this is my rage gone? Do I still have this this thing that that lights my fire? Is that? Is that that a conversation you had with yourself? Yeah, for
Lyman Good 27:34
for almost four years since he passed
I still do have those conversations.
But the irony of it is that I turn it anger to myself. I might have mentioned it before. And another podcast I did or so. Last time I felt was also about four years ago. So I think there's a lapse of time that people are wondering what the fuck happened. And the simple short answer to that is just depression. Yeah. I spent three years basically self destructing, and went through a period of time where I wasn't sure who I was. Everything I ignored since I was nine years old, suddenly showed up.
JT 28:37
He it Listen, there's a shelf life to be able to push that shit down. Right? Like at some point, it's, I call it a pressure cooker that can only hold pressure for so long. And then these little leaks start coming out in different areas.
Lyman Good 28:54
I mean, all emotions good and bad. There. It's like buoyancy. You know, you could push them down down into the depths of the water as far down as you want. At some point, buoyancy and gravity will make that shit come up. Sometimes, unfortunately, they come up by force, they come out from, you know, another trauma. But for me, it was just, you know, my my father reached out. And I guess I didn't know, you know, he was sick. And I guess something happens in people's minds when, you know, death is almost knocking on your door. You know what I mean? Yeah, that makes people think different. And I think he started to think different and he tried in his own way. He tried to reconnect. I didn't know. And I had, I had so much anger, you know, but I let it out. I let it out in that conversation. I just didn't know that. That was the last conversation I was gonna have with them. Yeah, and this was The days before my last fight this was in Vegas. And before the below Muhammad fight, I remember. I remember being in remember, for the first time I felt, I guess a panic attack that I never had before. Yeah, they're the worst. I was. I was in. I was in the hotel the night before. And I remember I was I was just browse on my knees. I was crying. I was praying in front of the toilet. And I was hyperventilating. And I remember that I was a undressed because I thought I was just hot. I don't know, I didn't know what was wrong with me. I just I feel like I couldn't breathe. And I remember just, I was just praying and crying fucking hard, like, you know, like a little piece of shit in front of the toilet. I remember asking God, if he could shrink me too small enough to flush myself down as toilet as I just wanted to disappear and the smallest hole or crevice in the middle of fucking nowhere. And hours later, I had to go and fight. I feel like I barely slept. I went out there. And I remember having this weird experience. Like I was outside of myself. I remember seeing I felt like I went in the cage. But I felt like I was outside of the cage is observing myself. You know, I wasn't I wasn't even there, isn't
JT 31:25
it? And do you even have very like vivid memories of the actual flight? Or is it just like a kind of before
Lyman Good 31:31
they like shoot in and out? You know? I would even not explain it. It's kind of like weird like movie like, you know, like, little like quick explosions of parts of the fight. But I remember more just my body. Like I just felt like, my body was just in the cage. I wasn't there. I was still in the hotel room. I was on my knees. I was still crying. I was so wishing to get flushed down the toilet. That my family held the his funeral arrangements behind my back, I guess because of what had happened between us. Yeah, so I felt betrayed by my you know, that side of the family not not my mom and my sisters. I have another side of the family. So I felt betrayed by them. And then after that, I spent a good three years self destructing punishing myself for that, you know, my lowest point, honestly, you know, I rented out an Airbnb, in middle of fucking Pennsylvania somewhere Lancaster PA. Remember, I had brought my firearm with me out of nine millimeter. I remember sitting there and I put it on the nightstand. It was on top of the Bible. I was sitting on the bed. I remember us having a moment like this, this is it. You know, this is it.
JT 33:05
Since going through that, and stuff, I mean, I realized that that the good theory is, is relatively new. But But you mentioned some things around obviously it's my mental health and you mentioned suicide I think you said not many people know that there's people contemplating it right now. And it sounds as if this is this is coming from your your own experiences, man. And I'm not saying this to blow smoke, I'm these are the conversations that need to be had. Because the reality is that death by despair, whether it be through suicide, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is, whatever form of self destruction is, it's higher than it's ever been in the history of time. We are the richest country in the world, and it's higher in the United States than it is anywhere else. So I'm going to guess that the good theory is an attempt to take this thing like we said that what stands in the way becomes the way you've gotten through these this absolute fucking nightmare. And you're finding an opportunity to maybe connect with others who have who have gone through the same same types of experiences.
Lyman Good 34:26
100% That's like I said before, I like turning something negative into good. You know, I have an obligation to that as a human being I feel and a nod to Ryan holidays obstacle is away is that it is true. All things that are meant to destroy us can empower us as well. But there's people that need help, that probably aren't as strong yet, or who can't see it. that way. Yeah. And I think God sometimes blesses people with pain and sorrow so that they can transform those things into the instruments that help other people find, you know, their way through theirs.
JT 35:14
You mentioned word obligation. And I talk about it a lot on here. And you know, I've had, you know, my own struggles around addiction and, and, but when you come through the other side, some people look at as, Alright, I got through it. Thank God, I got through this thing. Other people see, there's a price to admission for that. And that is the obligation to help other people to help the other guy who's who's in the same mental state, as you are, whether it be in front of the toilet, whether it be in Lancaster. Those are the people if you connect with one of them, I mean, you've already done unbelievable work. Have you had experiences where people have talked to you or you maybe through this vulnerability that you're clearly showing where people have said, Hey, what you said or your ability to be vulnerable has has, has really touched me in a certain way.
Lyman Good 36:18
It it definitely has. I mean, I saw I had a reluctantly agreed to a podcast in sort of in the midst of that time period about once a year, year and a half ago. It was actually it was, you know, Jesse leach lead singer of Killswitch Engage a band that actually I listened to heavy metal. So
JT 36:44
I listened to the entire episode today.
Lyman Good 36:46
Yeah, so then you saw, it's interesting if you've already seen it, because you almost see two different people and the beginning of it, you see just I'm going along playing the character and then a typical questions. And there's my typical answers. And then the reason that podcast was important, because two things happen. One was that I just stopped myself dead in my tracks at some point midway through that episode, and I was like, you know, this is bullshit.
JT 37:21
Let's just put it out there. This
Lyman Good 37:23
is all a lie. This is all a lie. It's not real. It's bullshit. And I, it was like, then it turned into like something else. I didn't know what was going to come of it. I remember even feeling embarrassed. I remember right after it ended. I'm just like, you know, like, what
JT 37:38
did I do? Yeah, what
Lyman Good 37:39
are you doing? Like, this isn't you? And then, little by little, the messages were pouring in, you know, and I was getting messages. And I would be like, Oh, fuck, here we go. I was like someone, you know, saying, like, some stupid or what? I'd open it. Good job, I needed to hear that. Another one will come in. Hey, bro, you don't realize how much I needed to hear that did another one, then another one, then another one. And at one point, even students of mine who I trained here, and I see almost every day, every other day. For years, who even opened up and would tell me things very personal of things that happened to them as kids, you know, I can't repeat. But sure, well, I'm like, wow, like, I would have never known. You know, and it again, it goes back to that moment during that podcast where I was like, You know what, this is bullshit. This is all a lie. And we sell ourselves on, you know, on these masks. And I think realizing that was like, man like me, actually, all these years I spent being this, you know, being like, fucking strong and tough and, like, I've inspired people, but have I really helped people and there's a difference. You can inspire people. But I didn't feel like I really did much for people until I started to be vulnerable and open up more, you know, it's still I'll be honest, it's so hard to do at times, because I'm just hardwired to be strong. Nobody taught me to be I just learned to be strong for myself. Because I never want people to think of me as weak. But I think that is the problem in of itself is that it's, you know, it's considered to be weak. Just to express yourself and that's the problem.
JT 39:22
Yeah, the what's you know, when we obviously we can talk about physical strength, right. But when we talk about being strong, being brave, being having, being brave enough to put yourself out there. I'm going to rewind here, like I talked to people, like if we even talk about addiction, and you know, somebody has to admit to have a problem. They go I don't want to do that because what will people think, right? They're gonna think I'm weak. I go no, no, no. See, a strong person admits you have a problem and then does what needs to be done. It's Change it. A weak person continues to do the same shit year after year after year, even though they know they're dying inside, they're suffering, their family members are suffering people around them. And this is this is no shit. One of the things Joey had said, I said, you know, I love what he's doing, you know, he's clearly a guy who, on the outside, you can tell has can fight is in shape on that masculine side. But, and he goes, but he's cerebral. And that's, that's to me is what, what really, we need more of, right? Like, we need this this thing where I can, I can kick somebody's ass, but at the same time, I can admit, hey, I'm not in a good place. That's okay, that's alright, man. Like we wouldn't have I mean, clearly, we have a country that struggling in a lot of ways. So So maybe these are the we need to have more of these conversations. Because the more you have them, the more willing people are more willing to argue to lower their barriers and have these conversations.
Lyman Good 41:11
So I didn't realize the power of that until I had a, an experience with my sister. The younger of the two that I I, I dealt with things away I did after my you know, my father pass, she dealt with, you know, we all kind of had our own things. She, during that time, messaged me, you know, asking me Hey, what's going on, like, mom's worried about you, you know, my mom's crying, leaving voicemails on my, you know, my phone, trying to figure out where the fuck I am that night. And I was going off for, you know, several years. And I guess I just wasn't me anymore. Or maybe I was actually more of me. And I just started opening up to her for the first time, I was telling her things that I would have never before, you know, I always had to be this strong brother. For her. I was kind of trying to play multiple hats with her. I was trying to be, you know, her father, I was trying to be her brother trying to be your friend. But really, when I started to tell her, you know, like, honestly Brulee what I was doing to myself and things that I was going through. She said, You know, this is the closest we've actually been. And, you know, I'm like, how's that? Like, this is the most embarrassing time in my life. There's the most weakest that you're saying me? And she was like, no, because I'm actually seeing you.
JT 42:36
You the real you.
Lyman Good 42:38
And she remember, have the text still. She says she wrote something like along the lines of I've never wanted Superman as my brother. I just wanted my brother is one of them to be there. And that was it. So between that podcasts, and you know that that interaction with my sister, I started to realize the power of openness and vulnerability, and not playing the fucking avatar anymore. Like you said, you know the character.
JT 43:05
Yeah, it was it's hard, man. It's harmie shit you on? I mean, Joe Rogan pulls a picture of you up as look at this guy. Look how shrilly that only reinforces that, that that stereotype? So so good on you for be able to get through through that in because my next question was, how did you get through the darkness? Like what started you back on the other side of that?
Lyman Good 43:34
A lot of it was self awareness. Then you said, Not long ago, he said something to the effect of just being more cerebral and more on your head. You mentioned we live in the richest country and I say one of the richest places in this country is a cemetery. Because beneath it, there's so much hidden potential that is buried that never got to see the light of day. I feel like we all have that light in us and that potential that never gets untapped. Because we're not self aware. I had another sort of like a side story where at some point a friend of mine is teammate. Solomon Renfro, he gave me this little gift bag. And he said a friend of mines daughter gave this to give this to me to get to you. Look at I was like, Oh, what is it? He was like, I don't know. It's just she said that you looked like you needed it. And then I kind of opened and I looked through it and it was like, You know what a little like eight year old would give inside of a bag. I feel like little trinkets and little, you know, little kid stuff. But I remember I just one point I chucked it somewhere in my apartment. I never looked at it. I woke up one day like pretty bad. Like first thing I want to do is you guys get to the bottom of the bottle. When I did, and then that morning, I wasn't I don't even remember much of the day. I remember just becoming curious about what the bag was. So I grabbed it, and I dumped it all over the kitchen table. I'm just going through it just for shits and giggles. And it's like, you know, little toys and stickers. And then I saw an hourglass, you know, one of those toy Hourglasses, or board games or games. And I always just fucking with it for a while, or just flipping it and flipping it, flip it in. And I remember telling myself like, fuck, like time really goes by quit. Time is like, and then that made me start thinking of time, like I was, I was like, man, like three years almost passed. It felt like yesterday, but I'm still fucking here. In the same fucking place. Nothing's changed. I'm doing the same act the same thing every day, going into my school, showing up here with the mask, teaching my classes, going home and just burying myself. And time just goes by fast. And I said to myself, I'm never going to get that time. I remember I got sad about that. Because people were coming up to me about things that happened during those three years that I couldn't remember. Even my birthday for three of my birthdays. Because I around the time my dad passed away it was it was a few days before my birthday. That was the worst time of you know, but anyways, I remember telling myself like, bro, like, I gotta fucking change because time is just going like that. So the first thing was just, I started doing like meditations I started reading, it's a lot of it is consumption you have to consume because what you already have is what you have, you can't change what's there. But you can control what comes in. Yeah, so little by little, there wasn't one specific thing. Honestly, it was just little by little an accumulation of changes. I stopped listening to certain types of music, because I have this fucking playlist mine. That was just, it was terrible. It's like a jump off. Fucking bridge, you know, playlists? You know what I mean? Like, the mind likes to romanticize that as well. And we like to stay there we like, because it's a state of knowing we're comfortable with knowing, you know, the comfort of the pain on us. It's one of
JT 47:25
our identity. Yeah, it can be part of your identity. Some people that that pain body, man, that is all they know. And it's where they're comfortable. Yeah, so yeah,
Lyman Good 47:36
that's so it was a accumulation of just little changes like that. Fostering are kind of doctoring everything that was around me to be more positive, because we can't, we can't change in a negative environment. So for me, I started to literally burn things, throw things away, that reminded me of the past, I had to literally destroy my old self. I was just doing it the wrong way. I was destroying myself. I was, you know, at one point I wanted to, but I said no, I got the right concept is doing it in the wrong way. And I had to destroy the old version of me, you know, to be something different, I have to do things differently as well. I don't know. I think besides that, I'm remembering my you know, my last name. And then on the third, I could be the fourth if I let it happen again, and just repeat the cycle. Now remember, I prided myself my whole life, I'm changing things and making something out of nothing. So the situation that I'm in, I told myself, not only do I have a duty to my family, to my students, to my loved ones, but I need to make a change. Because at the end of the day, when my time is done here, what would I had done for other people? You know, I would have left nothing behind but just being the fourth lineman good. Doing the same shit.
JT 49:08
I mean, I'm gonna guess that the venture that you're on now is going to is going to be more rewarding than you ever could have imagined. You know, you brought up that just a backup before we go on that you brought up a really good point to that. Like change is slow. You know, there is no one thing that snaps snaps people out of the darkness and you know the title of the show consequence of habit. It's about the little things we do on a daily basis. And do they add value to your life? Are they something that are going to hold you back? And sometimes you got to be you need drastic changes. Sometimes you need to kill that old version of yourself or at least that cancer that is holding you back in some way. Yeah. Have we seen little, little hinges swing big doors, man, sometimes it's just one of those little things that have changed in a playlist. It's a positive thing to move in the right direction.
Lyman Good 50:10
Yeah, and you're right. I mean, we are an accumulation of habits that we've adopted over years. And when things the there's a beautiful and terrible thing that the brain does, and instead, it makes things automatic, we know that the brain turns something into an automatic reflex, an automatic, you know, action that we do so that it doesn't have to burn calories thinking about it. Unfortunately, we can also make bad habits automatic, we can make certain things that are self deprecating, automatic. So that's why self awareness, I think was key for me was just stepping back and looking at myself understanding going back to how you opened up the, you know, today's episode about the ego, like, stand back, observe, watch, listen, look, let your senses take over rather than your feelings. Because you're not your feelings, your feelings are just there to let you know that you got some shit to work on. But you're not your feelings. You're not in confident, you're not unlovable. You're not, you know, whatever ideas that we have in our minds about who we think we are, we're not that it's just we're programmed out of habit to feel that way about ourselves. So I spent a good year reprogramming. And just little by little, I mean, it wasn't, it's not easy, like you said, but it was just gradually over time. Also eliminating people from you know, my circle, keeping positive people around, because let's say you could say you want to change all you want. But if you go back to the people that are hanging out doing the same shit you're doing, you know, when it all first started happening, you're changing?
JT 51:54
No, no, you're a fool. If you think you are, I don't care how smart how good willed how whatever, you will become what you surround yourself with? Absolutely. Speaking of wish this, even the entrepreneur group that you're part of, is that been part of the positive change? Or is that been something you've been part of for a long time?
Lyman Good 52:17
It's yeah, it's part of the, you know, positive direction that I'm going in life I wanted, you know, you eliminate things, but you got to replace things too. So I wanted to eliminate and not have this, this vacuum of just like, alright, figure it out. I need people we need a tribe. You know, that was actually around that time, too. It's funny how everything is kind of just started. I feel like God just works in amazing ways. But I got nudged accidentally one day when I'm trying to listen to like, positive YouTube shit. That I was just just just not connecting, just not connected to what people were saying Next. Next. Next, I know Yeah, be positive. Okay, how next next. And that's the thing is that there's just this whole market of like, you know, these good feel YouTube videos and you know, memes and stuff about like, positivity, but okay, well, how the fuck do you do it? Like, what where's the action behind it? Who's the guy behind this, that stain to do it. And then I, that's when I saw Bedros cool Ian's channel. And one of the first thing he talked about was shade up, just very forthcoming about the shit he went through as a kid. He talked about, you know, even sexual abuse, which is something that I went through as a child as well. Being poor, which is what I went through. I grew up into projects, you know, I grew up, you know, feeling unlovable, you know, I felt all these things that resonated with me, I was like, wow. So, I was already on a good, you know, cycle of, you know, starting to, you know, heal myself. But that was something that felt like it was very important for me, but maybe I needed it at that time. Because I do believe things need to happen at a certain time, even if it's the right thing. Because if maybe I heard that, you know, two or three years sooner, like my brain wasn't having anything, my brain wanted to just say, Fuck everything, we are destroying ourselves and we're gonna spend the next two years you know, you just don't hear anything. That's why change happens. When you are willing to change when you accept that it's time you make the decision, ultimately to change.
JT 54:37
And when when the consequences to the habits become dire enough we are you know, you realize I can't continue with status quo things are you know, it's for a lot of people it's like getting murdered but with a wiffle ball bat it just takes a really long time. Yes. Uh, you mentioned you mentioned the fight how, you know, how is it to have to answer the questions like a your we haven't seen your fight in a while and you don't want to have to get into the like, I mean, sit down, I got a long story for you, you know, what is the future look like? Is it? Is it even something that's on your radar? Or are you just kind of really focusing on, on this is the best version of yourself right now?
Lyman Good 55:26
Focusing on me right now and healing myself so that when I stepped back into that cage, which I will early next year, I feel my heart beating in there again, because I didn't feel it in my last fight. And it wasn't because I lost love for the game, but it's because I lost love for myself.
JT 55:45
Yeah. Now, so Well, again, you talk about self awareness and acceptance, you just encapsulated in that statement, knowing, you know, accepting where you are exactly where you're where you know, where you're going, and knowing what needs to be done, not just physically, to get ready for whatever comes away, right, so eighth party party parting question, habit wise, what are some of your non negotiables when you get up out of bed, to that's going to set yourself up for for as positive as day is as possible.
Lyman Good 56:29
It's more about what not to do. And it's straight to that phone, social media, you know, doing scrolling and all that bullshit, but it's about making that space to just breathe, literally fucking breathe, and not just start consuming content, not going to your phone not waking up. And just like just, like, inundating the brain with information that as I hold on, like, because you're setting yourself up also for the tone of you know, the, the tone for the rest of the day is dictated by the first few steps you make in the morning. So for me, it's just I like to meditate in the mornings. That's a personal thing of mine that I like to do. But it's not even anything crazy. I'll just literally spend, even if I don't formally sit down and make time for it, I'll spend at least give myself five minutes, like no phone, no, nothing, I'll drink my water sit down. And just like start, like letting the day kind of, you know, form like, you know, not not going straight to the phone and letting the phone dictate your day. Yeah, I think that's one of the things I think habit wise is just things that I don't do. I try not to do that on the meditation, although it's meditating. But the, the backbone of the meditation, I think was very ideal for me, throughout all hours of the day, not just in the morning, and it's the power of being present. We don't realize how much of our waking hours were spent in the past or in the future. And it's because we're not in the present. You know, we're always in anxiety, or we're always in depression. Or we're always in all these negative spectrums of thought, when if we're present, we're more singular, we're more at the moment, you realize neither of the two exists, not your past or your future, is the most important time. The most valuable asset to your world is today is right now, this very moment.
JT 58:28
You said it perfectly. And it's the only thing you control. It's the only thing you can control is what you've got in front of you right now, this very moment. So Well, I'd say what, you know, like I said, I listened to your other podcasts. And all I gotta say, I didn't know exactly how this was gonna go. And I with 100% certainty, you can say that listeners are going to get a lot from from, I'm not going to say vulnerability, I'm gonna say strength of exposing yourself exposing some of the struggles you've gone through, because there is a power of coming through that other side. And and Daniels share that message with others with the hopes of maybe they find some hope so,
Lyman Good 59:20
absolutely. And that's essentially the goal for good theory. I mean, I Yeah, it's funny, because I think you took note of it, and it was really something that I put out there. But a lot of what is said is through, you know, personal, you know, personal anecdotes and stories and experiences of my own. But because I am on the other side of them, I can speak about them. You know, I'm not professing to be this, you know, there's no at all who can fix other people's problems. I'm only there to share my experiences for others to see and to realize that they can heal as well. But it takes takes a certain type of work and a certain type of mind. And that's what I am presently going through. I'm not professing to be perfect by any means. But my job here is just to share my experiences and hopes that others could see the strength, not just from an average standpoint, but from my world, which encapsulate a lot of masculinity, a lot of having to be strong, that if I can do it, even under those lights, you know, anyone can as well we just need to have those conversations more. were you gonna say?
JT 1:00:33
Yeah, yeah, no, that's it's, I mean, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole. But you know, there was times when, you know, it was the philosopher was the, the skinny guy at college that you know, was, you know, where the black turtleneck and look poetry and philosophy and you had you had the meathead, right? Well, they're, you know, I love the evolution of we're more than that we're more than this, this this thing, we're more complex, because the human experience doesn't give a shit. What you identify as, and when there's a when there's opportunities, connect us all right now. And I really believe that's, that's what you're doing. And I'm really excited to see where this goes.
Lyman Good 1:01:18
Thank you, brother. I appreciate you having me on. I'm sharing the good word. I mean, what you're doing is awesome. So hats off to you and keep doing what you're doing.
JT 1:01:27
Thanks, brother. All right, man. Well, enjoy the rest of your training and let's keep in touch
Lyman Good 1:01:33
Well, do you ever need anything hit me up? I got my number now.
JT 1:01:37
Cool. Hey, do me a favor. Let me just just stay on with me. I'm going to hit stop on this and then just has to finish uploading of course.
