Strength in Sobriety: The Role of Fitness in Addiction Recovery
with Dr. Lori Davidson
For Dr. Lori Davidson, physical fitness is more than just a habit. After incorporating weightlifting into her life, it became a cornerstone of her sobriety. Now she's now helping others through her nonprofit organization, Powered by Transformation.
JT and Lori explore the science behind exercise's ability to release dopamine and provide delayed gratification, offering a healthier alternative to addictive behaviors. They discuss the importance of physical, mental, and nutritional support in the journey towards lasting recovery - and how these elements made a difference in their own sobriety.
Hear about the profound impact of fitness programs in inpatient treatment facilities, offering clients a holistic approach to recovery. To learn more about Powered by Transformation, visit pbyt.org or find them on LinkedIn.
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JT 0:00
Alright ladies, gentlemen, welcome back to the podcast. Today I am sitting down with Dr. Lori Davidson and she's the founder and executive director of powered by transformation. And this is right up my alley. Like this is literally the kinds of things we enjoy talking about on here. And just to give you a little backstory, I reached out to you, how long ago was it that we there we,
Dr. Lori Davidson 0:24
um, I think it was about well, we're in 24, so about two years ago. Now, so, so,
JT 0:31
so way to be persistent. Two years ago, I think you were you were you were traveling, you were in the middle of studying you were doing something. And
Dr. Lori Davidson 0:40
yeah, I was I was in the middle of actually my study for the dissertation to become a PhD. And yeah, we connected on LinkedIn. And, you know, I love what you're doing. And you are interested in my study. But again, being in the midst of all that creativity, creative chaos. We're just not able to connect at that time.
JT 1:04
I mean, it's the internet, you never know who's reaching out right. Like, yeah, I mean, I've I could go down the rabbit hole some some strange situations I've been with, with people kind of reaching out or jumping on to say yes, before you actually did a little research into what you're saying yes to. So with that said, I appreciate you taking the time to come on. You know, it's it's funny. I've looked into Power BI transformation in the timing is, is I mean, I guess it's just the universe is aligning? Because did you watch the documentary? Small Town strong? Have you seen that yet? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we're in talks with Dale, the gym owner about coming out here. We're going to show that film, and we're going to Oh, wow. And we're love. There's, you know, there's some things working around as far as fundraising, but we'd love to have him speak and also the the gentleman who, who made that documentary, because this idea of the where physical fitness plays its its role in in changing habits, right. Like we whatever that habit is if say, it's around something around substance misuse. In my mind, just not doing that thing is part of it. But there's this other part this Flipside. What is What are your thoughts on that? Like, what, what really what are your views? And maybe, maybe kind of get into the mission statement of Power BI transformation?
Dr. Lori Davidson 2:35
Well, yeah, I mean, like you said, it is, and it's more so about the mindset, right, and, you know, the distance and not just, you know, creating those habits, but actually transforming. And, you know, the habits that that we developed through and in our addiction have led to not so great experiences for us. So, through recovery, it's transforming that and through powered by transformation, we are looking to empower and inspire through that transformational process of strength training, specifically weightlifting. So we we really envision a field of recovery, and not just from substance from substance use disorder, so various life challenges, and we hope that strength training can actually be part become part of the standard care practice. So we are looking to partner with you know, facilities inpatient facilities. I'm having talks now with with two that are in the area and they're really on board they're really excited about being able to offer our Fit recovery program as part of the patient experience. I don't like really saying PATIENT I like saying client but I'm using their lingo. The
JT 4:18
whole man I've had a hard time with with words right? Yeah. And sometimes we just use them because in the moment there isn't something else that kind of comes to mind and I even feel that way about the word recovering and I've used that to describe myself quite a bit I I've had my past with issues around alcohol and but but I never want to say a word that when other people hear it, it either one puts them down or two if they don't know members of that community that it puts up this divide right. And then I think that's what's can be so powerful around fitness. This isn't this isn't a room This isn't an NA room, this is just a place where people go and feel the benefits of physical fitness. What got you motivated to even be involved in this in the first place?
Dr. Lori Davidson 5:16
It really started back in 2018. So I've been, I'll use the term in recovery, because I'm not recovered. And but I've been in recovery for about 20 years, since I was an adolescent, that was my first sort of time at trying to get this whole recovery thing. And what that looked like, have had multiple failed attempts at this. So that's why, you know, again, you speak to using the language, you know, living recovery, you know, is it's a process, and it's forever. So, through my own experience, and then back in 2018, my young cousin, you know, as addiction, I do believe runs in the family. So he had some issues, and they escalated, and ultimately, he did not win his battle. This, then sort of, I guess, created a survivor's guilt. You know, even though I had reached out with him, I tried to connect with him, let's go to the gym, you know, I'll pick you up things like that. He just wasn't, wasn't there yet. And it only took one relapse for him. And as we know, with a crisis going on now, that could be anyone that could be any of us, anyone that we love. So after that, yeah, felt strong survivor's guilt. And I think a lot of us have this question, why, how did we survive? Why did we survive? There has to be a stronger a larger purpose. And I felt that, honestly, JT, I felt that I was sitting on this secret. Because I knew through my own path, that it really was fitness, it really was strength training, that kept me focused on the healthy lifestyle, of not wanting to use, wanting to develop to my fullest potential. That discipline then went over to my mindset. And I thought, I need to share this. It's, it needs to be my contribution to the field, and I have an obligation to do so. Yeah,
JT 7:48
I've always found that interesting, where some people, it can be just enough for them to find a path, right? And then, and this isn't, this isn't judging one or the other, but some other people, they feel that it's, it's the price of admission is also to kind of spread that word of, hey, this is what worked for me. What is it about this specifically weightlifting, because you know, we've got all kinds of guests on here, and some people have been ultra runners or a lot of ultra runners. We've had weight lifters, we've had cyclists, everyone has not everyone, some people have found this thing about pushing their bodies. And it's almost it's almost a form of not torture, but you are putting yourself in uncomfortable positions, doing exercises feeling pain. And I guess my question is, do you think there's a correlation between some of the addiction side of, again, putting ourselves through pain, except this is this one has a positive impact?
Dr. Lori Davidson 8:59
So I'd like to challenge that
JT 9:03
question. Makes sense?
Dr. Lori Davidson 9:06
Yeah, it totally does. And I think so some people will say, I think along the lines of what you're alluding to, sort of replacing one addiction, you know, with another but I would I would rather like to reframe your pain and pose it as power. So through the research that I did, in the fit recovery study, the individuals who are part of the study that I interviewed all contribute weightlifting, as their catalyst to maintaining in the recovery life world. And so through the analysis of the data, and it all comes back to in one way or another power and we You know, in many of the programs, early on in mutual aid programs, we are taught that we are powerless over our addiction. For me, that did not work that actually drove me deeper into a hole and depression. So for me flipping that, and seeing that, no, I'm actually more powerful than my addiction. And again, that came with that mindset. And that discipline through strength training. Yeah, I mean, there is some pain that goes along with that, right? When you're when your store or you don't get the lift, or, you know, whatever that mindset is. But yeah, I like reframing that.
JT 10:50
I guess, really, one of the things I'm asking is, does the that same mindset of addiction, and let me let me back up, I had West hurt on here, and Wes is the founder of of clean energy drink, and they, they donate 50% of their profits to recovery community. And he had this this thought that people actually in recovery addicts, they are some of the most motivated people in the entire world, look what they've done to their own lives just to get to this one thing that if you could harness the power of that, that you are capable of amazing things. And maybe that falls more in line with what you're saying, instead of saying, Hey, I'm powerless over this thing. I have a power, it's just not being directed in the right direction. I don't know if that makes sense. Right. Right. Yeah,
Dr. Lori Davidson 11:49
no, and I totally, totally agree. And I think I actually, I think I listened to that podcast. And they are, they are some of the most creative people that you'll ever meet. And the most resilient people that you'll ever meet. So, you know, to your point, they've done just about anything to get, you know, what they need to survive, in some cases, some have been through, you know, housing, insecurities, incarceration. And, you know, they're still able to come out of it and make it, you know, in the recovery life world. So it's funny, because a lot of the themes that came out of the research, and I have this, this chart online, is is one of the third levels of this themes is sort of on focus. And more being future focused, which, typically, we're not in addiction, we're just in that one moment of trying to get whatever it is that we need to get high or to meet the day. But through traveling that pathway, we're then changing our mindset to become more future focused. So that's kind of, I guess, a roundabout answer to the question.
JT 13:20
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's more of, you know, when people are in those, those raw moments of wanting something, whether it's through, you know, you're going through a physical withdrawal, or if even can be mental, right? We know that we chase this thing that makes us feel good short term, that long term is probably not great. Right? You don't get that through fitness. Right? You don't get the like things aren't. You can go to the gym today and work your ass off. And I have bad news for you, you're gonna look the same when you're done. But, but having this delayed gratification for this deeper sense of pride in what you're doing. It's that's down the road. That is that is something that people that are active in diction, it probably seems very foreign to him.
Dr. Lori Davidson 14:08
Right? Yes, absolutely. Which is one of the reasons why I think having these programs inpatient in patient facilities is important. Because then they're already being exposed to, to lifting to the discipline, to the healthy lifestyle before they're reintroduced to the, to the society as they know it, because I mean, you know, honestly, most of most folks that are discharged to recovery homes end up really back in a lot of the neighborhoods that they frequented, which, you know, doesn't help On top of that, but I remember early in my recovery when I was going to the gym, and I started seeing the changes in my body, like you're saying it's a process. And I started feeling more powerful. It actually helped me to be more vulnerable to do the internal work that I needed to do, which is important. So again, I just tried to focus on that in patient time. Yeah. Which is important.
JT 15:30
Yeah, I definitely think it lowers some, some barriers, right? There's something about exerting yourself physically, that lowers anxiety levels just makes you feel maybe a little bit more open, especially if you deal with somebody else. Right? If you go do something with somebody else, I mean, that's the reason things like the military. You know, when people go through hard things together, they feel this sense of camaraderie when you add, getting sober or clean, and then weightlifting on top of it. I imagine that that even reinforces that even more. What has been the experience because of like you said, most people in these moments they're thinking about, I just have to get through, you know, it could be today, it could be this hour, it could be the next 20 minutes, I gotta get through this. How do you get buy in on, you know, this person is just focused on not doing this one thing. And instead, we're going to ask you to do this, this this thing that's uncomfortable. You know, at first, you learn to appreciate things like weightlifting, but in the moment, this this, this might be so far off the realm of something that they're even thinking about, how do you get buy in on something like this?
Dr. Lori Davidson 16:44
So when we partner with the clinicians out at the site, so our focus is really on? Well, this hasn't worked in the past. So why not? They, there's, there's a lot of conversations in the recovery community about the different different treatment facilities, different treatment plans. And, you know, the 12 step model just doesn't, it doesn't work for everyone. Art therapy, it doesn't work for everyone talk therapy doesn't always work for everyone. So, you know, really, it's just more about a why not? Just try it. So and this would be in their part of their, you know, treatment plan to track progress. And it's not going to be for everyone. But if it can just be for one person. That's enough for me. And I
JT 17:45
think that's so important, right? Because there's a lot of programs out there. And this is not to knock anyone at all, because every program, I like to think every program has helped people. Yeah, and people are very defensive of whatever program has saved their lives really, right. So I completely understand that. But, but accepting that it's not a one size fits all, you know, some programs may work for more people, but but also acknowledging that there's different paths for different people. And that's okay, because at the end of the day, we all have the same goal, right? We all want to stop doing this thing that we've been doing. That's that's had negative consequences. You mentioned that the epidemic that that negative consequence, for far too many people is is they're no longer with us. So I think there is there is that that first kind of thing of accepting you are where you are, because of what you've been doing is not working, let's find something else. So I do think it's maybe a good time to introduce things because people if they're there, they're most likely kind of desperate for for something something different. Yeah.
Dr. Lori Davidson 18:59
And, you know, if we are as practitioners going to support individuals holistically, there are missing folks that, you know, we're missing folks at the table. We're missing that physical health piece. And we're missing the nutritional piece. So, in my world, I would I would love and I envision this, to have, you know, personal trainers involved, nutritionists involved. You know, I just read an article about, you know, what is your treatment facility feeding you so it's, you know, there are things that the body needs, especially when battling an addiction that I just don't think are being really incorporated into the recovery process right now. And I think a lot of that is because we just don't know what we don't know. So I think as more areas of Recovery are studied, then there be more evidence, but it really takes a long time. I know when I was doing my study, there really, really wasn't any research on weightlifting. And the impact on preventing relapse. There was a lot on fitness like you were talking about cardio and mental health, for sure. There was a there's a lot of research out there, but really nothing on the strength training component.
JT 20:31
Do you think part of it has to do with the dopamine that's released even through weightlifting, because we know anyone who's tried to who who's had an issue with something around substance misuse, and I think this maybe goes back into the nutrition side, one of the most common things is a craving for sugar. And I know there's different reasons behind that. But but one of the things I don't know if you've read Dr. lmks, book, dopamine nation, but we are going to try and find our dopamine somewhere. And for a lot of us that was is through sweets. There's no reason it shouldn't be through physical fitness, right? We know that that's, that's something that's going to raise dopamine levels, and then it's going to be maintained for much longer periods of time. What in your studies can either support that or debunks what I just said?
Dr. Lori Davidson 21:23
No, it's absolutely right. And actually, in my study, in the dissertation, the printed version, I actually provided brain scans from NIDA. And it actually shows a cocaine addict, and they were doing the PET scans. So it was showing the time and distance from someone in active addiction to their recovery time. And then it was also showing the trance transmitter. So when someone is, you know, pressing that dopamine sensor, right, and then it takes more and more. So no, I mean, you're absolutely right. And the lifting, you know, does that for us, you know, we all know anyone who's ever, you know, at a PR deadlift, I mean, that's, you know, I go through the moon, with things like that. So, but no, I mean, you're absolutely correct. And I think if we could bottle that in some way, again, maybe it is replacing one addiction for another. But I'm just in the business of keeping people alive. So I don't think that an unhealthy it would be an unhealthy addiction. Yeah.
JT 22:39
And I want to I want to clarify, I don't think that that's a bad thing. Like, we, I want to, I want to choose my words, carefully. But you know, the whole thing about what we're trying to do is bring awareness to the impact that habits are having on your mental health and your success. Right. So right, if if the byproduct of lifting weights five days a week, is is a strong, healthier body, you will clearly these are opposite sides of the spectrum than what whatever the chemical dependency or, you know, or lifestyle, unhealthy lifestyle dependency you had before. So I think it's nothing. I'm sure just like anything, people can bring that to an unhealthy level. And I've even seen that in the in the running community before. But you know, at the same time, it's it's that brutal honesty of why you're doing this thing, right. It's an understanding, you know, the motivation behind it. How many facilities are in I'll let you respond to that. And then I guess a follow up question is, how many facilities has this been incorporated into and what have been the results so far?
Dr. Lori Davidson 23:51
Well, right now, we're working with two facilities, but we're still applying for grant funding. So we're hoping, you know, by March that we'd be able to actually provide the Fit program. So it's focused in transformative recovery. So that's, that's really the project under powered by transformation. So once we can do that, I'll be able to, you know, provide more outcomes. But really, the the driver behind this is the study that I did for the dissertation.
JT 24:33
How long did that study take? What was your current Prem time parameters on that?
Dr. Lori Davidson 24:40
Well, I started it in 2019. There were some hiccups. So you've heard of this pandemic called COVID. So so that got in the way a little bit, because the idea was I I originally wanted to go into gyms. and observe the list lifters and kind of get the, their experience that way because the study was really focused on their lived experience. And I wanted it to be sort of a primal you know, I wanted to get their, their initial reactions after the lift in real time, but because of COVID, I wasn't able to do that. So it just became more of interviews, which in its own right, had some challenges. But so it went on for about a year and a half. And through through that, I met some amazing people. And I always say, even in the dissertation I dedicated to them and my cousin, because without them sharing their stories, and being willing to be vulnerable with me, I wouldn't have been able to do this work. So this work was truly about them. And the people in our community that they represent, yeah.
JT 26:01
Now, these are all people that that had dealt with a substance misuse order before and then are now in the weightlifting community. Yes,
Dr. Lori Davidson 26:09
yes. And some of these folks are, you know, their world rank power lifters. They went on to actually become recovery specialists and are in the counseling field. You know, just some of them are stories are just amazing. So if I mean, if anyone wants to look it up online, there, I have photos in there, because it is published online, it's free access, there's no no charge, look up the study. So they're just some amazing stories.
JT 26:38
What's been the biggest challenges? I mean, you know, what my initial guess is, is it's it's funding, right? You talked about having to go through some grants, and that anyone who's applied for those, I'm usually my ADD, I'm usually out within the first five minutes of reading them, because they're so complicated. But other than that, what has been the biggest challenges with getting a program like this accepted either within a treatment facility or even the the facilities, the weightlifting facilities?
Dr. Lori Davidson 27:14
I mean, to be honest, JT, it's, that's really it was the funding, and I was blown away, blown away at how receptive these facilities were, I mean, I, I had a contact, actually, he was a former student of mine. And he's a certified recovery specialist at the one facility, he put me in contact with the clinical supervisor, she was in love with the idea. And then just cold calling around, got in contact with the other facility. And they were just all about it. Now, again, you talk about funding, so they're all about it, especially if they don't have to pay for it. So and I knew that going in, I knew that. So that's why I went the grant and the nonprofit route. Because if I can just bring this to you, and say here, you don't have to do anything, we will do it all how can you say no? How can you say no, you can't? Not if you are truly invested in the patient experience at your facility? Because again, it's it's not mandated. It's they elect to do it. But yeah, I mean, I was blown away. And to your point about the grant writing, it is tedious. It sometimes I am pulling out my hair. But when I get that way, I actually have my cousin's picture right up there. And I know that this, this is my purpose, and how can I not keep going? Yeah,
JT 28:48
yeah, it's definitely always gonna be your why I'm sure. And then even your own experiences. And I something I didn't mention, when we first started speaking, it will be in the intro. So everyone who I've already heard about, you're also the system professor at Montgomery Community College. Have those two worlds? I mean, is this study something you also presented to students is is how do these two worlds kind of collide?
Dr. Lori Davidson 29:15
So I do periodically present the study to faculty, and staff when we have our professional developments, and sometimes I'll be invited to share the research. But what I love about many of the students I work with, and Mongo in general, is they do have a collegiate recovery program. And that was something that I partnered with some administrators to get in place. Now we have a fabulous Wellness Center at the college. And, you know, we have a program this is our theme power. So it's called the Power Program, and that does support students who are in recovery. Every from substance use disorder or any type of trauma. But yes, my students, some that I work with, through the Human Services program, that's usually their major. They are coming into this field because they've experienced the loved one or themselves. And you know, so I'll share my story a little self disclosure with them at times. Yeah.
JT 30:24
Yeah, there's power that right, like you talked about, like earlier that vulnerability. And I think it's a huge part of it. Because you know, I've said this on here before, but But you know, I grew up watching, you watch a movie, and there's an NA room, or an AAA or recovery center, and we all have this idea of what that is. And even through my own experiences, I always wanted, I got a lot from those meetings, but I always want something more. And I feel like, you know, the fitness side was something that I always lean to, even when I was when I was drinking, like, that was still a huge part, I almost, I think I almost did it. To try and counter counteract this destructive side, it was like, I think I actually worked out more and harder. But but, you know, we'd get done and you realize that, you know, you're sitting around drinking coffee somewhere in a dark room, or, and, Mike, this is great. We've all we've all talked, you know, expressed her feelings, and you know, it's fantastic. But there's more, it's more of me, like, I want more, I want, you know, I want to, you know, you want to replace some of those those habits to and to have a community of people and I'm sure, you know, the Phoenix, as well, and it's amazing community, they're doing great work. You know, when we talk about the dopamine we do we do some breath work and cold exposure events for the recovery community, because it's that dopamine level thing, and it brings, you know, really extended higher heightened levels of dopamine, but I don't know what the hell my point was. You know, we've been, we've been in talks with things John ganglion have he Oh, yes, I've heard of him. So he just opened a place here in Delaware, down near the beach. And he's, he's been all about it. He's, you know, hey, how can we combined the mental health side, the addiction side, and and the powerlifting side, because there's a huge benefit, you know, by incorporating this into, into your journey, right?
Dr. Lori Davidson 32:30
Yeah, I was surprising, like I said, one of the participants of the study is, you know, again, a world rank power lifter. And then when I, you know, dug deeper into that world, there was it was surprising to find a lot of power lifters who are in recovery, that here I had been in contact with, and just never knew. And just, you know, because, you know, I think part of our culture, at least from the recovery, old recovery world that I came from, was keeping things anonymous. And it's like a dirty secret, right. And, but I, I think that now we're kind of evolving, and that is changing. So and I hope for more practitioners and professionals, that continues to change because like you're saying role modeling for our youth, for students that we come in contact with. It's important, especially to show that recovery is possible. But on the flip side of that, it is scary. I kept my recovery secret for a long time well, till till the study that I couldn't hide, but it was it was scary. Just to know how especially working in higher ed, how I would be received. I wasn't sure. I get
JT 33:54
it. I 100%. I do think that that's changing. I think there's a couple things going on. I think the the unfortunate fentanyl epidemic has touched so many different lives that we realized, hey, this we can't keep this very secret anymore. And then there's there's so many you're gonna hear me go down a rabbit hole. But But why? Why think habits are more important now than they have ever been in the history of time because we're constantly being you know, we've got quick access to things that make us feel good short term. And, you know, one of the things when I talk to groups of people is I make those connections. Hey, I'm just like you, you know, hey, I have a family. I've got this. I've got a normal job. And everyone's right on board. I said, Oh, but I couldn't stop drinking. There's this this other thing. And you may lose some people until you do things like addiction. Mine was alcohol, it had consequences. Somebody who's using fentanyl, the consequences are much higher, but if you think you're not addicted to things, you're most likely wrong. Like, you know, take out your cell phone, let's see how much time you spend on it. And then you start grouping, you start connecting people together, because like I said, this kind of was my point of going back to the movies. When I saw that, as a younger person, I always thought that would never be me. That will never been a, I'm never gonna be part of that group. And even when I was part of that group, at first, I said, These people aren't like me, they're different than me. And it wasn't until somebody said, no, no, they're the same. Because we're all here for the same reason. I really, and that's what connects us, I think we need more connection than we do by dividing us. So I don't even know if this is the longest winded way to get to a question. When they're working this program outside of the facilities, is it still under the umbrella of hey, this is like this is recovery? Or is this your, you know, you're just going to the gym, and Italy? How does that process work?
Dr. Lori Davidson 36:03
So again, depending on funding, the next stage of the process that I would love that would spill over to outpatient, I'm sure you've seen those. Well, I know at my gym, and has, you know, Silver Sneakers, little emblem, you know, so something like, you know, purple sneakers or something like that, that would be for folks that are graduates of the program, that they can go to the gym, and hopefully still stay connected with the other purple sneakers that are around. And then there will also be a workforce component. So right now my two fit trainers, they are in the process of being certified for certified recovery specialist. And so any trainer that is part of this program will go through the CRS credentialing. And so the hope is that those clients that this really resonates with, if they want to become personal trainers, we can help them do that through one of the associations. And then, you know, in a certain amount of time, when they're able to sit for the credential, they actually be able to come back and work for us as part of the program. So just our way of again, giving back and kind of keeping the momentum going. Yeah,
JT 37:31
yeah, what would it and I certainly don't want to put a negative spin on anything. But if we talk about recovery, we know that statistically, there are people that are not going to it's not going to work, right? It's like how do you guys? What is your process for that? And kind of what is, I guess, what is your guidelines? You say, Tomorrow, you got a million dollars to run with this program? What would that look like? For you?
Dr. Lori Davidson 38:02
We'll definitely hiring a bunch of more personal trainers, really up to? But yeah, so just bringing on more facilities, more personal trainers. So if there are personal trainers that are interested, I'd love to connect with them. And then just getting this out to the clinicians to get started with the patients, they did want to refer to the program. But you know, really, we're ready to go once the funding is in place. So you know, we have all the planning done. And yeah, so it's just a matter of, you know, some some facilities do have gyms. They're not, you know, like what we would expect, but it's enough. Some don't that would take it's gonna take much more work so that you know, that hitting the lottery would require some setup on that part.
JT 39:05
Yeah, yeah. No, I think what I was I was kind of more leaning towards like, if it maybe I'm picturing this wrong, but but say somebody gets out of a facility and now they're, they've incorporated strength training into their, their recovery process. Are there guidelines for that? Because I'm, and maybe I'm wrong, I'm assuming that your program would help pay for those people to go to continue to go to facility.
Dr. Lori Davidson 39:31
Right. So continue to go to like, whatever fitness facility and then of course, there are, I'm not, I'm not a fan of CrossFit, but I know like where I live in my community there is a CrossFit recovery program. So it would be a matter of, you know, referring them maybe introducing them to that program. Now, if they really felt comfortable with our personal trainers, then they could certainly see date on with our personal trainers outside of powered by transformation that would be, you know up to them. But again, whatever they feel that they would need to sustain their recovery and prevent that relapse, that's really what we would be we would be focusing on. And that would be, you know, follow up calls check ins, just to see how they're coping.
JT 40:23
Yeah. And I guess that was really kind of what I was getting to because I like the Phoenix, it's, I think it's a you have to have 24 hours or 48 hours of, you know, you're being you're sober for this period of time before. That's the like, I think there's one kind of stipulation, I imagined that there would still have to be kind of guardrails on like, Hey, you still have to maintain this. Otherwise, this funding kind of goes away. Am I correct?
Dr. Lori Davidson 40:47
Right, right. Yeah. So that's what we'll be doing.
JT 40:51
Alright, well, if somebody's interested in either hearing more about this program, maybe we, one of our many billionaire listeners decides they want to get behind this thing. Please, please. Arnaud, if you're listening? How would they go about contacting you and kind of helping this process along?
Dr. Lori Davidson 41:15
They can email us, it would be ask us at p bi. t.org. Okay, then they could just, you know, email, even if they want to volunteer and get involved, we're always looking for, you know, volunteers to help with things. So we'd be happy to have them. Awesome.
JT 41:32
Awesome. And I, I'm gonna tell you now, I'm not that surprised that you found more people in recovery doing this. Because that's been almost every aspect of fitness that I've been involved in that once you start talking like, I met my, my, my sponsor at a climbing gym. I know I known him for a long time had no idea was in recovery. I have told this story on here quite a few times. But I just said, Hey, I'm trying to keep myself healthy again, I'm going to quit drinking, or I'm going to try and stop drinking or something like one of those half assed ways that you say, I'm going to try and do something, but you don't really mean it. I mean, yeah. And but something told me that he had some insight about it. And I said, you know, do you drink? Yes, I've been sober 14 years. And that started the process. So you just, I'm not surprised. And I'm happy to hear that more and more people are vocal about it. Because going back to something you said, we don't hear those stories enough. We hear the tragedies all the time. But we don't hear the success stories. And there's something you talked about children. When you see somebody as an adult make a change in their life. There is in my eyes, very few things as powerful as that because a lot of us are setting this, this is the way we adult this is the way we do things. And it doesn't have to be that way. Right? We can we can make changes. So I applaud you for the work that you're doing. Lori and I hope just copious amounts of of funds and capital come your way. And this thing just absolutely takes off.
Dr. Lori Davidson 43:14
Well, thank you, JT. And I appreciate you bringing awareness to all the all of your topics. I mean, your podcasts are just incredible. So I hope that you know, you continue to have the energy to you know, keep things up and keep things going and at a great time. Thank you.
JT 43:32
I appreciate it. Thanks.
